Interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi The President of Square USA talks about FF IX and the next installment of the Final Fantasy movie. April 5, 2000 Hironobu Sakaguchi is the president of Square USA and one of the original creators of the Final Fantasy series. The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences recently announced that he will be inducted into its Hall of Fame as part of the company's third annual Interactive Achievement Awards in Los Angeles on May 11, 2000 on the first day of E3. Here's a pre-written Q&A session with Sakguchi-san: Q: When did you first develop an interest in computer games? What led to your interest in them? A: I was really into the Apple II when I was a student. The innovative and creative game titles that were coming out of America for that system really stimulated my interest in all aspects of game development. When playing the games hours on end was no longer enough, I began to teach myself of their contents and to create my own similar contents in new games. This is how I started making my own game software. I remember opening the disc covers just to see which tracks were being read, etc. I wanted to understand each aspect of what went on behind the game and re-create something similar with my own imagination. But most of all, I played, and played, and played. Q: Why do you think the Final Fantasy series becomes more popular as it continues? A: I think there are several reasons as to why the Final Fantasy series has become so popular. The game itself is fun to play, but its strongest characteristic is the visual entertainment the game provides. I think this one of the main factors that have drawn users to the series. We put 100% of our resources and effort into developing games that don't just keep up with the evolution of game consoles, but also surpass previous works. Also, this happens to be a coincidence, but the hardware has changed with every three FF titles. (Nintendo->Super Nintendo->PlayStation). On each platform, we've continuously succeeded in providing the users with a sense of "freshness," and I think this has also contributed to the series' popularity. Q: Along with technological and systematical modifications, has your work in game development changed in any way? A: As the development team increased in size, my role shifted to director and producer. I believe that the most important aspects are the story, game system, and art concepts in the pre-production stage, but the hierarchy structure and quality of workflow also affect the product as well. Q: What is your favorite Final Fantasy title? And please tell us why you chose that particular game. A: The upcoming Final Fantasy IX. This title (currently under development) is based on a reflection of all the previous works in the series. The coming installment is my "favorite," it's closest to my ideal view of what Final Fantasy should be. But, I've set my standards too high, so I think there's room for more Final Fantasy titles to come. Q: When did you first think of creating a story and then telling it to others? What inspired you to do this? A: I haven't really given it much thought, but ever since my first work, Deathtrap, I've written story-based games. I think I am a story creator, and storyteller at heart. Q: Please tell us your dreams for the future of computer and video games. A: In spring of 2001, Square will begin an online service called "Play Online" that will provide general entertainment, such as online games, music, shopping and more. An ever increasing number of people are participating in and enjoying online games. Play Online will allow these players to send mail and chat during while waiting for friends or missions to start (while providing services such as music, comics, and shopping). I envision a system that provides not just a game, but a total online living environment. Preparation on this is currently taking place. In Play Online, an imaginary world based on the real world (inhabitants included!) is created online with CGI. What happens in the real world also takes place in this "imaginary world" and at times, information may be received faster than the news. One of my dreams is to conduct a charity this Play Online "imaginary world" and extend its functionality beyond mere communication. Q: What are some of the sources of inspiration for the Final Fantasy series? A: Just the ordinary events of our lives: encounters, discoveries, disputes, compromises, betrayal, and love. It is the accumulation and interweaving of these elements that make a story fit for Final Fantasy. Q: We have heard that you would like to create a type of entertainment that combines computer games and motion pictures. It has been said that the movie you are directing, Final Fantasy: The Movie, makes this possible. Do you have any comments regarding this production and what can be expected from it? A: The FF movie is purely a visual creation. For the next installment of the movie, however, I plan to create a new type of interactive movie...so stay tuned! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hironobu Sakaguchi interview [09.02.99] » In the latest issue of GameWEEK, Square's Hironobu Sakaguchi sits down to discuss Final Fantasy VIII, the PlayStation 2, and future titles in the company's flagship series. While the pre-Final Fantasy VIII hype is definitely far more subdued than the mania which met Final Fantasy VII, Square's highly anticipated RPG has gone anything but unnoticed. The September 1st issue of GameWEEK magazine contains an interview with FF series creator Hironobu Sakaguchi, discussing issues ranging from PlayStation 2 development to Nintendo's Pokémon. Of particular note is Sakaguchi's skillful evasion of GameWEEK's FF IX queries -- although, when asked if FF IX would see a 2000 release, he curiously replies: "I mean, if there is a nine, then it'll be in the year 2000. They should come on a yearly basis, right?" The full text is available below: GameWEEK: The last time we met, Final Fantasy VII had just come out and you were pretty excited over its sales in the United States. Now Final Fantasy VIII is out, and it's already a major hit in Japan. I read that Square has sold 3.5 million copies. Hironobu Sakaguchi: The number is up to 3.6 million, at this point. GW: Does that make it the biggest game of the year in Japan last year? HS: Yes. GW: And are sales up to expectation? HS: We had to raise the cost of the game 1,000 yen because it has four CDs. It sold for 7,800 yen rather than the 6,800 yen [that past games have sold for]. I was worried that it might affect sales, but obviously it hasn't. Yes, the game's sales lived up to my expectation. GW: For the U.S., do you expect it to match sales of Final Fantasy VII? HS: I would hope so, and also Europe as well. I just returned from Japan yesterday, and the staff there is working on the European version right now. GW: Has work begun on the PC version as well? HS: That is being worked on in the Los Angeles office. I also had a chance to check the PC version in Japan, and it has a higher resolution than the PlayStation version. The graphics are a lot prettier. GW: Were you satisfied with the game? Was anything left out for lack of time or space? HS: Because I was going back and forth to Japan so much, I basically produced the game in two different countries. It was difficult trying to be involved all the time, so I had to let my director make many of the decisions. I'm very satisfied with what was done. GW: What are some of the differences between Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII, besides the new characters? HS: the biggest difference between the games is the characters. The characters in number seven were sort of stumpy cartoon characters. We switched the characters' heights to regular human scale, and because of the size of the characters, we had to work a lot more on the animations in order to show the expression. That drastically increased the amount of animations they had to work on. The other big difference is the FMV (Full-Motion Video) movies within the game. In FF VII, the only time the characters were actually included in the FMVs was in the ending; that long, long movie at the end. This time, the movie director wanted to include the characters themselves inside the FMV, so now there are a lot more movies inside FF VIII in which you can actually see the characters well. GW: Any other differences you care to elaborate on? HS: Well, another thing about the characters is that there is a "consistency" in the characters in FF VIII. There were differences in the characters when they showed up in the battles or in the movies in FF VII. You saw three different versions of the characters, whereas in FF VIII, they wanted to maintain consistency in the characters. Obviously, there was a lot more detail, facial expressions, and actual acting on screen. The big difference and the challenge was to maintain the characters's setting in the low-polygon battle and field scenes. We spent a lot more time working on details such as expressions and gestures. GW: Was PlayStation strong enough to support all of that? HS: I could always wish for more power, but as far as the game went, PlayStation did everything I wanted it to do. GW: Back in July, 1997, you held a briefing for several journalists in these offices in which you said that things had to move to DVD. HS: Did I say they "had to" or did I say I "wanted them to?" GW: You said that the next platform would... HS: Oh, I said the next platform should be... [laughs] Maybe I did say that. GW: Did you already know that PlayStation 2 would be DVD? HS: No, no no. I said that I wished that it could be. GW: What do you know about Nintendo's Dolphin? Any chance we'll see a Final Fantasy IX or FF X on it? HS: When is the Dolphin coming out? GW: Nintendo says 2000, but most people are predicting 2001. HS: So even if you were to see a Final Fantasy game on Dolphin, it would have to be FF X if Dolphin is coming out in 2001. GW: That means that we'll see FF IX in 2000? HS: Yes, 2000. [laughs again] I mean, if there is a nine, then it'll be in the year 2000. They should come on a yearly basis, right? GW: Would that be both U.S. and Japan in 2000? HS: Actually, no. It would be staggered. The English version would come later just like [the English version of] FF VIII. GW: So if there were an FF IX, we could see it possibly on Dolphin in the U.S. and PlayStation 2 in Japan? HS: I really don't know anything about Dolphin. I don't know much about the specs of the machine. If it's a good machine, there would definitely be a possibility of making games for it. GW: How do you feel about Dreamcast? HS: Speaking from the technological side, I think it's very good hardware. In terms of whether I'm considering developing software for it, the Dreamcast market in Japan is too small. Since Sega basically closed down at one point in the U.S., it virtually has no market here or in Europe. So from a sales point of view, I don't think that there is a strong possibility to work with Dreamcast. GW: But if Sega were to amass a strong market, Square might be interested? HS: Yes. GW: Final Fantasy VII obviously did well in the United States, but I don't think any RPG since then has done nearly as well. Am I correct about this? HS: That's true on all hardware - PlayStation, PC, and Nintendo 64. No RPG has come close to FF VII. GW: Square has released a Final Fantasy Collection CD in Japan. Has it sold well? HS: Pretty well. It sold around 300,000 to 400,000 units. It did very well, considering it's a collection of older games. GW: Super Famicom games? HS: It's Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI. GW: Okay. Will the Collections CD come to America? HS: No. We are planning a Final Fantasy Anthology which is going to be a compilation of Final Fantasy V and VI. In addition, it's going to include a music compilation CD from V and VI as well. That will be out late this year. GW: Now FF V was never released in America and FF VI was released as Final Fantasy III on Super Nintendo correct? HS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. GW: Square Soft seems very commited to staying with Sony in the future. Have you started work on any PlayStation 2 projects? HS: PlayStation 2? No. Wait; let me rephrase that - I don't know. GW: Would it be possible that you would release FF IX in both PSX and PlayStation 2 versions? HS: PlayStation 2 is backwards compatible, meaning that games made for one unit will probably work on the other. GW: It would work on both, but it wouldn't be enhanced at all.... HS: Right, that's true. GW: And knowing your thirst for quality and graphics, I would assume that you are very interested in tapping into the most powerful hardware.... HS: There are many different projects that would be good for PlayStation 2. GW: At Square Soft's investor relations meeting, Mr. Takechi (Square Soft president Tomoyuki Takechi) said that the company would apply the technologies from the Final Fantasy movie into future games. How will you do that? HS: One answer to that is the demo you saw of the old man on PlayStation 2. (One of the many things Sony showed at the unveiling of PlayStation 2 was a demonstration of the system's ability to show facial expressions. The demo showed an old man's face that could be manipulated to look happy or angry. The demo had been prepared by Square Soft.) The data and calculations for that character are straight out of the movie. It's all transferred directly from the movie and runnind on [PS 2]. Many of the tools and plug-ins that have been developed for the movie project will be used in developing PlayStation 2 software. GW: Is the transfer pretty straight forward? HS: Yes. GW: If you want to get a feel for the industry in Tokyo, you can simply go to Akihabara (Tokyo's Electronics district) to see how people react to games. America doesn't have anything like that. Do you miss it since you are living here now? HS: The biggest point of disapointment about the U.S. for me is that it doesn't have an Akihabara or the equivalent thereof, but I don't rely on that city to be my only testing grounds. GW: Last time we spoke, your N64 had been in the closet, and was just coming out for Zelda. HS: It came out for Zelda, and now it's being used for Pikachu by my daughter. GW: What do you think of Pokemon? HS: In all honesty, I didn't think much of it at first, however, my daughter was playing it so often that I decided to take a look at it, and, lo and behold, it actually was a well-made game. The Pokemon card games are also very well made. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Famitsu: Mr. Sakaguchi, from the beginning, you held the position of director and producer from the Famicom's FFI to FFIII, and the big leap that was the Super Famicom's FFIV. From I to IV, how was your role changed with the Final Fantasy series? Hironobu Sakaguchi: In the beginning, I was the main planner, but when the production team increased, a director was needed, so I took that role as well. Basically, I was responsible for the story, events, in otherwords the tale, up to FFVI. Famitsu: When you say up to VI, I know that Mr Kitase came to light from VII, correct? Sakaguchi: Well, with FFV, I worked with Kitase, and we also did VI together. And after that, Chrono Trigger, too. In FFVII, there was the need for CG movies, and we did not have the skill for that. At the time, we had only worked with the Super Famicom, so our knowledge of CG implementation was near to zero. However, there were many things that only the PlayStation could do that we wanted to try, and there were many techniques we needed to learn. There was enormous work to be done in the producing aspect, so I went in that direction, and I left Kitase in charge of the main aspect. Famitsu: From my point of view, I get a feeling that the Final Fantasy series pushes the available technology of the time to its limits. When it first came to Super Famicom with IV, the scene where the airship flies into the air had a great impact. I feel that you are very involved with the game's presentation and technology. Sakaguchi: Well, I was a programmer, in the beginning. Famitsu: Oh, is that right? (laughs) Sakaguchi: Yes this was at the time of the early PCs, and when Square was established I was programming PC games. In that respect, I was concerned about how the hardware works, and how the algorithms in game programming and software worked. By discerning the limit of the hardware, that is how we decide on the game system. I try to present as best as I can with the limit of the hardware. But of course, you cannot make a good game simply because of technology or its hardware. Famitsu: Even in the days of the Super Famicom, your presentation impressed many people. I suppose the PlayStation provided many possibilities in how it could be presented. Sakaguchi: Yes, apart from the move from 2D to 3D, we were able to implement FMV, thanks to CDROM media. Famitsu: What I see and feel in your work with FMVs, is your deep interest in cinema. That greatly influences you in your games, I think. Not just the games themselves, I think it greatly influences you in not only the games but as a creator. Sakaguchi: I want to tell a story. The characters are like real people, crying and laughing, and because of that I am interested in dramatic presentation and visuals. Whether a movie or an interactive game, your sense of direction does not differ. Famitsu: I see. Sakaguchi: Of course there are many games that can move you emotionally without relying on visuals. But, in a time where the hardware develops so quickly, I want to take great advantage of this to make something that will move people's feelings even more. The visuals that can be used depends on the development of hardware, so I want to push it to the highest possible limit. Famitsu: Because the PlayStation has opened up more possiblities, I think that you are beginning to see what you wanted to make. Sakaguchi: Yes. I think it is nearly there. But, there is still much that can be learned. Famitsu: You have cooperated with staff from Hollywood. Does this have a big impact on you as creator? Sakaguchi: It is not simply Hollywood, but working with people who have lived in the world of cinematography has an impact on me. They think about this a lot and produce great films. It makes me think that it is a different level from the visuals of games. Famitsu: Yes, I see. Sakaguchi: I would like to combine games with their technique in film production, and many of the staff who have been with me are very talented; so I believe that we can improve aspects of visuals and presentation by cooperating with Hollywood Staff. We already have the know-how for interactivity so I believe we can make something great by adding knowledge of presentation and projection. Famitsu: So you are concerned with how to present a game more dramatically, by acquiring the technique of Hollywood staff. But how will FF evolve, and your role in VIII change? Sakaguchi: In VIII, I am purely the producer. The production is in Hawaii and Tokyo. Like VII, Kitase will completely direct. Famitsu: You're creating the Final Fantasy movie at the moment, right? Sakaguchi: Yes, in Hawaii, I am mainly working on the movie. Famitsu: So which is more fun, making movies or games? Sakaguchi: (laughs) That is hard to say! There is a lot of things I have not experienced yet in the field of movies. Famitsu: Oh, I see. Final Fantasy VIII and the movie is being worked on simultaneously, and the FF world will be greatly widened. Can I say that in that time a new FF will be made with the know-how acquired from movie-making? Sakaguchi: There are still many hurdles in the production of CG. To overcome these hurdles, and to make people feel emotion with its projection, is what we're aiming to achieve in making this movie. Perhaps, there will be in this, character and expressions that isn't felt in today's CG. In the end, I want to merge this with games. I want to make a game so good that if I taped it and showed it to someone, that person will feel moved. But first we must perfect the technologies of CG projection. Famitsu: And how long do you think it'll take for this to come about? Sakaguchi: Around 4 to 5 years, I think. The movie will be released in 2 years, so I think that, as much after that, I believe there will be true emotion in games. Famitsu: So after VIII is the movie, and after the movie a game will come out two years after that? Sakaguchi: Well, between them, FFIX and X will be announced. And this new style of CG will arise with X or XI. Famitsu: This is a personal feeling but, I believe after you have acquired the skill from movies, you, as creator, will have a much wider knowledge of presentation. So more than the development of this new style of CG, I am looking forward to the future Final Fantasy games more. Sakaguchi: Well, I'll have to try my hardest to please you. (laughs) Famitsu: I can't wait! (laughs) Lastly, a comment for FFVIII, please? Sakaguchi: If there is reasonable development from VII to VIII, in many respects, VIII will go beyond all that is expected. So, please look forward to it! [Interview translated by Sachi Coxon, taken from the June 5th issue of the Japanese magazine, Famitsu Weekly.]